TERRY SHAUGNESSY

For me Terry Shaugnessy is one of the most important singer/songwriters to immerge from these shores for a very long time and The Universal the most exciting band since The Stone Roses.

The following interview took place last year and was originally meant for my planned fanzine however, with the fanzine idea shelved the interview remained unpublished until now. Things have been brought up to date with a few additional questions just to make it a bit more current.

Enjoy! Mez.

How did it all start for you Terry? I mean, what got you into music and what

were you listening to when you were a child?

I always wanted to be a songwriter and a musician as far back as I can remember. I knew from the off

what I wanted to be and do with my life this time around. I was fortunate enough to grow up surrounded by great music. My Mum was in the Small Faces Fan Club when she was a teen. She loved Otis Redding. So, at home I’d hear all that stuff along with music from the Motown label and the Stax label. The Beatles were a constant and I’d also go through my Mum’s record collection and get to hear stuff like Jackson Browne, Nils Lofgren, Neil Young, The Eagles and Carole King, all of that West Coast stuff that she was also into. I remember her having John Lennon’s Mind Games LP and really being into that. Aside from my Mum, I had four Uncles. Two of them played in bands, one playing Bass and the other playing Guitar. I’d be a little shit at any rehearsals they had that I could blag my way into. As soon as there was a break, I’d be up and behind the Drum Set and also messing about with the Guitars. I think I just soaked it all up and I was mesmerised by the whole thing. To this day, one of most the beautiful sights for me is instruments set up on a stage, waiting patiently for the musicians to put them to good use. The thing about my two Uncles that played in bands was that they had this room where they stored both of their record collections and they had a stereo set up in there. To their credit and trust, they’d let me go in there and play those records as much as I wanted and for as long as I wanted. This introduced me to The Jam, The Style Council, Stiff Little Fingers, Sex Pistols, The Police, Tom Robinson Band, Squeeze, Elvis Costello, The Specials, Free, Led Zeppelin, Graham Central Station, Funkadelic, Chic plus a whole lot more. Then on top of all this, my other two Uncles were both Postmen. They put a lot of their money together to build one of the biggest record collections I’ve ever seen. So, although they wouldn’t let me get my grubby hands on the records that they’d worked so hard to buy, I would however be more than welcome to sit in when either of them were enjoying the fruits of their labour. So, I was exposed to things like Little Feat, Fairport Convention, Roxy Music, David Bowie, Tom Petty, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, The Fixx, Dr. Feelgood, Aztec Camera, Emmylou Harris and again, a whole lot more I can’t think of right now. I think that getting to hear all of the music that I’ve mentioned above, it set the precedent for the rest of my life, in the sense that my musical taste

has always been and still is massively varied.

Did your taste in music change much as you reached your teens?

I’m not sure to say it changed is the right term because I was still listening to and still into all that

music I’ve mentioned earlier. What did happen though was that I started to find other music off my

own back that I was also into. I was starting to understand the whole Mod thing and I was into that.

The ethics and the attitudes on the lifestyle as much as the music and also I was learning about the

Casuals and their Football fashion. So, I started to find things like The Who, Kinks, Lovin’ Spoonful

and a lot of other stuff from the sixties and I checked out the bands from the scene in the late

seventies/early eighties. I really liked The Chords but a lot of the other bands didn’t really do much for

me. Aside from that, I can remember getting into Curtis Mayfield and also The Meters in a big way. I

also remember hearing Paul Weller’s first solo album for the first time and absolutely loving that. Not

just that it was full of great songs but for me personally at that time, I thought it was and still is one of

the great contemporary drumming albums. Steve White’s performance, creativity and complete

devotion to playing what was right for each song had a profound effect on me. It’s no surprise that it’s

still my favourite Weller album to this day. It’s almost like the perfect union of what was to come later

on Wild Wood and Stanley Road and what had come before with The Style Council.

Something else I remember having an effect on me was Blood, Sugar, Sex, Magik by the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I loved John Frusciante’s Guitar playing on that album and the grooves between Chad Smith and Flea. I also started getting into Jazz around this time too. Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Dave Brubeck, Art

Pepper and the Rhythm Section, Dexter Gordon. Stuff I still listen to everyday. I believe I was listening

to some of the early (and best, in my humble opinion) Hip-Hop artists throughout my teens too. I

guess the other thing I should mention is that I came across Try Whistling This by Neil Finn. Although

he probably gets frowned upon because of Crowded House, for me Neil Finn is a genius songwriter

and although I backtracked and checked out some of the Crowded House stuff, some of which I liked,

it’s his solo albums that stand out for me. It’s almost like because it’s his solo stuff, it’s undiluted. I

think that sometimes his melodies are other wordly.

When did you start playing an instrument? I know you also play drums, which

came first?

I’ve always been able to play Drums and from when I was really small onwards, I’d play on anything,

probably sending my Mum nuts at the same time because I’d always be making a din...not much has

changed since! I had a Drum Kit once that I’d made up out of boxes and an empty Quality Street tin.

So, I guess I played Drums first. But because of being around my Uncles from a very early age, I was

picking up Guitars and hitting Pianos even then. I should also mention at this juncture that I had a

cupboard in my bedroom that I converted into a little studio....don’t worry, I wasn’t some kind of genius

or anything! I actually made a cardboard tape machine and stuck it on the wall in there. I made it in

such a way that the tape reels spun around and everything. I’d then go in there with my plastic Tennis

Racquet, use Blu-Tack to attach some Wool from the Racquet onto the Tape Machine and I’d make

believe that I was recording. It makes me laugh now but thinking back, I remember being completely

serious about it all. Anyway, moving on! I did, however, make the decision to play Drums in bands

first, even though I was writing in one form or another, but not necessarily writing proper songs yet, I

felt it was best for me to get out and play live and get some experience. I loved every minute of it but

the experience quickly taught me that a lot of bands fail because there are too many egos involved.

So, I then came to the decision that if I was serious about trying to make a living out of music that I

was going to have to spend a lot more time on the Guitar and also writing songs, so that I could get

out there and try and get something going that was my own.

Is that right you had drum lessons off Steve White? How did that come about

and how was it?

I went to a Drum School in France that was on for a week. Steve White was one of the teachers there

and the reason that I went on it, to be honest. This was where I met him. I then had some tutelage at

the Pearl Drums factory in Milton Keynes. Great fella and the best British drummer of his generation!

Your first album Big Wide World was released under the name of

Shaughnessy. What are your thoughts on that album and what led you to form

a band rather than continue under your name?

Big Wide World is the best sounding recording I’ve done up to now. It was also one of the best times I’ve had recording. We had three months to record it. So we worked Monday to Friday and had the weekends off. I played the Drums on that album too, which was nice to do, as I don’t get much chance to play Drums these days. Just after that album was finished it was entered for the Mercury Prize and we did a video for Can You Feel It? and also an EPK. Things were moving in the right direction and then the record company I was signed to went through a massive upheaval and they changed their personnel. This inevitably brought things to an abrupt halt. Once the company had sorted themselves out they ditched a lot of the artists they had on their roster but I was one of the ones they wanted to keep. The upshot of this was that the person they brought on board as an advisor wasn’t into Big Wide World and insisted that the way forward was to keep the nuts and bolts of how it all worked, ie – it’s my songs and I guide the ship - but promote it to the public as a band, as he felt that people would respond better to this rather than to a solo artist. Hence the reason for having to find a band name.

The other thing he insisted on was recording a new album with the emphasis being on it sounding like something from the late seventies/early eighties. Set up in a room all together and record all the music live and put the vocals on afterwards. He also said that we’d have to do it in seven days including mixing. In theory, I thought that this was a good idea because obviously I love a lot of the production from records of that time but I was completely disappointed with the outcome. The resulting album was the debut album for The Universal. From what I remember, myself and the members of the band at that time weren’t too keen on changing the name from Shaughnessy to something else. I said I’d do it only if I could come up with something that I was comfortable with. I finally did change it and I decided to name the band after the Small Faces last official single on the Immediate label.

Terry has revisited Big Wide World with his latest release, Songs From Another Life (released 26/09/16). So if you missed out first time around, here's your chance to see why Terry and the rest of us hold this album in such high regard.

Available from: http://www.terryshaughnessy.co.uk

Leaky Boat is my favourite track of yours. Are there any plans to rerecord that track or re-release it? It’s far too good a track to sit on the shelf. Not sure how I’d feel about a re-recording though.

Well, firstly, that’s nice of you to say that you’re into that track so much. At the moment there aren’t any plans to re-record it and I’m not sure that it would be a good idea to do that anyway. It’s not just going to sit on the shelf though. From this year we’re starting to play a lot more festivals, so I’ve recruited a Keyboard player for these bigger gigs, so we’ve been rehearsing it with the full band so that we can start playing it live. Also, because most of the festivals are in Europe and beyond, I’m going to release an EP which will contain a selection of the recordings from the Big Wide World album, mainly to introduce the music and the band to an audience who know little or nothing about us. Leaky Boat will definitely be included on that. Leaky Boat is featured on Songs From Another Life.

Where did you find Piet? Quality guitarist.

Piet certainly is a quality guitarist and he’s like my brother. I met him through his Dad, who himself is a fantastic musician. I was recording at a little studio that was in the grounds of the house where they lived. We were just mates at first and he wasn’t really playing Guitar too much then but when I did eventually sit down with him and play Guitar, I just felt that he had something special. It wasn’t apparent then but I could just sense it. I knew that if he got the opportunity and the encouragement he could be an amazing player, which, of course, he is today. One of the other things about Piet, which was apparent to me from the beginning, was his attitude towards playing. For such a young lad, he was already onto the fact that you had to play for the song and not for yourself. Piet and Chris Waring (who I will talk about later) are two of the most sensitive musicians that I know and I’m very fortunate to be playing with them both. I would like to mention at this point that at the time that I told the other band members that I was recruiting Piet as the new Guitarist, they all thought I’d lost the plot because he was so young and inexperienced. I’m glad that I stuck to my guns because today he’s a monster! and along with Steve Cradock, one of the best British Guitarists around, in my humble opinion.

Does Piet contribute to the song writing process?

We don’t sit down and write songs together, if that’s what you mean. What usually happens is that I’ll write and arrange a song. I’ll demo it up, playing all the instruments, so that it’s about 80% there. I’ll then give it to Piet, Chris and David to learn, so that they can get the general feel and framework of it and then once they’re comfortable enough with it, they’ll come to my studio and replace the respective parts. Sometimes they’ll keep some of what I’ve played on the first draft and they’ll also put a bit of their own slant on there and then eventually with rehearsing it and playing it live, they’ll make their part of the song their own, so that when we come to record it properly, everyone is expressing themselves within the framework of the song, making sure everything any of us plays and adds to it completely compliments the song and everything else in it.

The band have been through a big shake up with the departure of Dave and Gary. How did you feel about their departure and was there ever a moment when you thought that could be the end of The Universal?

Well, anytime that any band members leave, it’s an upheaval and also, without sounding too blasé about it, an inconvenience. I’d already had to go through it before Dave and Gary joined The Universal. Just after we’d recorded the debut album for The Universal, the Drummer and Bass player had to leave because of family commitments and I had to start auditions to replace them. A Drum teacher who owns the Drum Shop in Liverpool put me onto Dave and I already knew Gary a little bit because we were both from the same town. So, it becomes an upheaval and an inconvenience because you almost have to start from scratch regarding the gigging side of things. New members have to learn the songs, then you have to spend a few months rehearsing them in and then you have to build up an understanding and rapport with them. It was exactly the same when I had to replace Dave and Gary. We’d been together as a unit for close on five years, and along with Piet, we’d done a lot of miles together and because of this, built up a good reputation as a live band. So, again it was an upheaval and an inconvenience.

Dave had started playing with some musicians from LIPA, the fame school in Liverpool, and decided that he wanted to join their Pop band. So, he told me in March 2014 that he was leaving. Because I’d already booked in a lot of gigs up until about the September time of that year, he kindly offered to juggle the two things and see out the gigs until then, so that I didn’t have to cancel too many. Myself and Gary had never really got on 100% from the beginning and within the time he was in the band, because of his actions a couple of times, I’d nearly replaced him, so knowing that Dave was leaving and that there was going to be upheaval anyway, I took the opportunity to replace him at the same time.

For a little while, I did think about drawing a line under The Universal. Just for the simple fact that myself, Piet, Dave and Gary were the ones who had become known as The Universal and we’d gained such a good reputation that I didn’t want to ruin that reputation by carrying on just for the sake of it. I’d also started working on a little side project around that time, and still am at the moment, so that was coming into the equation too. So, I took some time and I sat down and thought about what was the main thing that made The Universal special and I came to the conclusion that it was the songs. Yes, the four of us had a reputation for passionate, energetic live shows but I knew that with the right musicians, it wouldn’t be any different in that respect. I’d done it when the previous members had to leave, so it could be done again. So, I decided to start looking for new members.

Also, it’s worth mentioning that through both of those upheavals, Piet had stayed in the band and he was extremely keen to keep going and it was nice for me to have someone with me in the trenches who also believed in the songs and what was trying to be achieved in the long term. So, it was sad for that era to come to an end but you’ve just got to dust yourself down, get your head together and get back in the game.

Introduce the new members of the band and tell us a little bit about them.

Ok....the new members are David James Gaskell on Drums and Chris Waring on Bass.

Regarding David....I contacted the Drum teacher in Liverpool, who I had also met Dave Ormsby through. We auditioned about ten drummers, with David being one of them. He got the job and is just recently starting to really settle in. Chris Waring is the original Bass player who played on Big Wide World and also on the debut album for The Universal. As I mentioned, he had to leave because of family commitments. Since I started writing and recording, Chris has always played Bass for me. In fact, when I first started gigging on my own with just myself and an Acoustic Guitar, Chris used to drive me all over the country because I couldn’t drive back then. So, it’s great to have him involved again and at such an important point in the bands career. It’s great to have another sensitive musician who believes in the songs and in the vision.

You have been playing acoustic gigs for many years now and they have a totally different feel to the electric gigs. Do you have a preference?

No, they both fire me up in different ways. It is great though, to play a song stripped back, the way it was written and it’s always nice to be creative and work the songs differently for an acoustic gig. The one thing I would say about playing them acoustically is that you quickly find out if the song is any good because there’s no noise or production to hide behind. But I wouldn’t say that I prefer one more than the other.

Which contemporary artists/bands do you like?

There’s not been too many recently but I guess that I’d have to mention The Raconteurs, who I

thought were class and also the last Jack White album was really good. I love White Denim, who are

from Texas. Also, Vintage Trouble, Tame Impala, Wilco, Polar Bear, Melody Gardot. I thought that the

last Foo Fighters album, Sonic Highways, was their best effort for a long time and the documentary

that goes with it is superb. I also like Queens of the Stone Age and I’ve recently got into Eli ‘Paperboy’

Reed, after hearing Mez play some of his stuff whilst DJing. I guess that I’d have to confess at this

point that Kraftwerk are my guilty pleasure!

I find it strange that The Universal aren’t massive. Do you have any thoughts on this? I mean there are bands such as Kasabian who are massive but to be honest they aren’t fit to carry your guitar. You also get the usual chart based crap dominating; that must be frustrating for you?

It is frustrating but I’m not sure what you can do about it apart from persevering, concentrating on your

own thing and trying to better yourself on all fronts. It’s futile to get too worked up about it because for

the most part, it’s completely out of your control. But, having said that, there are times when I’ll tune

into Later with Jools Holland and I’ll hit the roof because of the shit that’s on there. I guess the most frustrating thing for me is the lack of support The Universal and other bands like us get in the UK. Even amongst the Mod/Scooter scene, people divide themselves and refuse to watch bands for the silliest of reasons, instead of getting behind them. I think that maybe part of the reason for some of the Mod/Scooter scene people not getting behind us is because we’re more of a rock band and that we don’t play covers. But, again, having said that, Eddie Penny, who runs Modculture Liverpool and came up with the March of the Mods idea, said to me recently that he thinks that we’re a Rock band who the Mods love and it makes perfect sense to him because that’s exactly what The Who are.

Also, the top end of the music industry in the UK is such a closed shop. Which is why we are now starting to concentrate our efforts abroad. As, outside of the UK, they seem to just take us at face value, instead of trying to attach labels on us or our music. I don’t, however, waste my time wondering why we’re not as big as Kasabian or anyone else at this point in our career. There are so many factors involved on the business side of things that will elevate those bands to that level, so it doesn’t always mean that they’re great at what they do. I think that there’s a mentality here in the UK that if people get told enough that something is great, they’ll just take it as fact and jump on the bandwagon, rather than seriously checking it out for themselves and forming their own opinion.

Does it puzzle you as much as it puzzles me why people seem to prefer to go

to see cover bands?

For someone who writes and performs their own material, it frustrates the shit out of me. I’m not a

musical snob in any way, shape or form. Everyone has the right to make a living, even if that’s playing

in a covers band. So, from a musicians’ point of view, I can see why it’s a viable option. You might not

be able to write your own stuff or you’re playing in a covers band to get some cash whilst you’re

getting your own thing off the ground. It’s not something I’ve ever wanted to do but as I say, for a

musician, I can see why it would make sense.

It’s the punters who are the most confusing party in all of it. I understand that going out and seeing a

live covers band once in a while would be good. You go out, have a few beers, have a dance and

relive your youth for a few hours. But to choose that over new, original music almost every time really

confuses me. Aren’t the best representation of those songs already at home, at your disposal in your

record and CD collection? Also, a little closer to our hearts…can you call yourself a Mod and just

completely look backwards all the time? I guess that the Jury is out on that one. I’m not just saying

this because I write my own material and hardly ever play a cover but even if you don’t like what The

Universal are doing, I urge the punters to find an original band that they do like and get out there and

get behind them, you never know, you just might like it and the future of real British music could

depend on it.

What are your thoughts on politics and politicians?

I guess growing up in a working class family you can’t avoid the issues of Politics or Politicians. I think that if

you look back into the not too distant past, it all seemed to be a bit more clear cut. The different parties had

distinct lines drawn between them. I think nowadays, those lines are massively blurred. I was under the

impression that politicians were voted in by the people and then there to serve the people. But all we see

these days are politicians serving themselves. I don’t think it matters too much these days who gets voted in,

as we don’t have a say in anything that goes on and in the end, politicians will lie to our faces and do

whatever they choose regardless. Even after saying all that, because of my upbringing and my beliefs, I’m

never going to vote Conservative. I’ll still vote Labour, even out of pure apathy.

You’ve gone on record as saying you were not happy with the first Universal

album. What was you unhappy about? I loved it and so did most people I

know.

Well, coming off the back of Big Wide World and being angry that the record company had decided to

shelve that album, whatever came next had to be amazing, as far as I was concerned. For me, that

first album for The Universal was anything but that. I mentioned earlier the idea from the record

company and its advisors on how the album should sound and be recorded and produced. I thought

that the actual playing on there was good but the choice of drum sound and guitar sounds wasn’t

great. Denise Johnson did a great job of her vocals but I didn’t like any of my vocal performances and

I would’ve liked a couple of more days in the studio to address that. I was also ill at the time and I

knew that I could do a lot better but they were so hell bent on the session only lasting only seven days

that I didn’t get the chance. The other thing that needs to be noted is that this was the album that was

going to be people’s first impression of us as a band. I didn’t think it was good enough for that and I

also felt that it didn’t do some of the songs justice. But our hands were tied. As it happens, without

getting all Paul McCartney about it, at some point, I’ll re-record some of them and put them out there,

even just to put my own mind at rest.

How do you feel about The Outsiders?

I loved The Outsiders. In between Dave and Gary joining The Universal and the recording of The Outsiders,

for good reason, myself and the record company I was signed to, parted ways. I’d already demoed up a few of

the tracks that were going towards The Outsiders and there was interest from Sony amongst others. So,

that dragged on for a bit with meetings and whatnot but when it came down to the nitty gritty they all

began to stall. So, me and my Wife decided to take control of it ourselves and go it alone and set up

our own record company and then I could just get on with the recordings myself and we could release

it. I thought all the playing on that album was great and I loved the DIY aspect of it. I spent a lot of

hours on that album and I thought that it was full of energy and a pretty good representation of what

we sounded like as a band at that time. It seemed to be received well enough by the public and I still

feel that it was a good collection of songs and it hangs together as an album really well. A few of the

tracks off it like If You Want It and The Worshippers have become some of favourites to play live.

You have recently moved out to Malaga. How did that come about and does it affect your plans for The Universal?

A better lifestyle and the weather were the main factors, we don’t seem to get a summer in the UK anymore. It just seems to get a bit warmer but with the same amount of wind and rain. I sat down with the lads in the band and talked to them about my plans and how it wouldn’t affect the band and what we do moving forward. They were all fine with it and they now get to come and record and have a mini holiday at the same time and they’ve always got a place to come to if they just want to feel the heat of the sun for a little while. I’ve set up my studio here, so I’m back hard at work.

Tell us about The Universal’s current plans.

Well, for the last six months we’ve been rehearsing hard with the new band members to get them settled in

properly. We’ve had a few gigs here and there with them to road test everything. I feel that they’re both

starting to settle in now and it’s starting to tighten up and sound like a band again. The atmosphere in the camp is back and it’s a joy again to be rehearsing and playing live. I’m busy writing, so there’s new stuff on the horizon. A new album will be released in the Spring of 2017. All in all, I’m glad that I decided to keep The Universal going and I’m excited about the future again, I think the new band is better than the old one.

Finally; I get asked this a lot. How old are you? Lol

I’m told that you’re as old as the woman you feel, so I’m 31!

Cheers Terry and all best with your plans.

Mez